I still think it's easy to place blame on the parents within the context of what happened, but tons of kids are little miscreant assholes who commit petty shit like Eric & Dylan were doing. Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. What have I raised? Just know I'm going to a better place. Maybe that's what I find so scary about the whole thing, that there are people who walk around, every day, and are completely lacking in everything that I thinks makes us human. I don't think I can categorize Dylan's relationship with his parents as bad or good, because Dylan was incredibly disturbed teen and clearly had a skewed perception of reality. Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! You're far too stupid to ever see that though. Those kids were their responsibility legally. Sorry. LITTLETON, Colo. Just 15 people attended the funeral of Columbine High School killer Dylan Klebold on Saturday two ministers, eleven mourners and two anguished parents wondering where they'd gone . Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold. What happened to them? Asking how points the way forward, and shows us what we must do. We are not violent.I would never do a shooting even though I work in an office with a bunch of former jocks and homecoming queens that haven't changed since they left school and are still as awful now as they were then. I also agree with R7. As a . Bratty kids in Target are not mass murderers in the making. February 12, 2016 11:56am. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. Just three days before the shooting, he went to prom with a friend. . Every parent has flaws and every parent makes mistakes, but to me they mostly come across as a very normal family like there are millions all over the world. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. As the son of a geophysicist father and a mother who worked with the disabled, his upper-middle-class upbringing and well-meaning family didn't seem like contributing factors to his eventual killing spree. They could still have been on the outskirts of the school. Family & Personal Life. They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. r54 is right. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. His grades fell to average. "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". Over time, they became increasingly close, hanging out by often going out bowling, carpooling and playing the video game Doom over a private server connected to their personal computers. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). You have no right to disrupt someone else's place of business. Im going to start by reviewing what Bartol & Bartol (2017) have to say about school shooters (and shootings) as a group, though they also state there is no single school shooter profile. We had to get up at 4:00 AM to be there by 6:00. I believe the parents both left the Columbine area, and possibly the state of Colorado. Maybe he needs to go home. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. In a video-diary-style recording, Dylan stated his parents had been good to him. His dad followed him around with a camcorder, capturing every move. "Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Ochberg said. This is true. Sue Klebold decided to speak up now because she wants to tell other parents the signs she missed and what she would do differently. He was afraid Dylan might be involved. I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. It may have hurt him. Several phone callers to the Jewish News have . She is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre that occurred on April 20, 1999. Very,very sad but not surprising.The majority of parents who have lost a child end up splitting up.No matter how much they loved each other or how strong of a relationship they had before the tremendous strain and grief is often too much to endure. This was murder, he said. FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. 5 feet 6.5 inches tall, 135-140 pounds. Too bad. They will live on forever !!!!!!!! 18 year old son of Wayne Nelson Harris and Katherine (Kathy) Ann [Pool] Harris. This page is focused on the tragedy as well as its perpetrators so we can try to better understand the psychology and motives behind this horrific event. Firstly, like everyone else he didnt pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his best friend. I do find it odd that youd characterise your 17 year old son as your best friend anyway, youre his father. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. She and the father lectured him, took away . I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. Yaron Steinbuch. The parents of Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold have often been portrayed as disengaged from the lives of their sons and unaware of the dark paths lying ahead. I just don't get it. Don't believe me? Based on the end of Cullen's book, who was of course supposed to be a guest, most of them have moved on. Nothing taken care of that I needed him to do (like take care of the cats). It didn't seem to slow down the ordinary media train. Good thing I did because Dylan hasn't exactly risen to a level of responsibility in my absence. Posted 3 years ago His parents raised their two boys as many others did, following that close-knit, suburban family model (p. 62). When in a store and two or three siblings are fighting and shouting and behaving badly, how does that parent not see it? I read a book about young doctors and they were discussing whether you can teach compassion. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. Sue would later find out through his journals though that by sophomore year he was battling depression and suicidal thoughts. Funny how things cycle.". Were not qualified to sort this out. Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . Indeed, up until he died, he had been going to school, working a part-time job, hanging out with his friends, planning for college all behaviors of a normal teenager. These incidents happen because the majority of people choose to look the other way if a kid seems a little off. Sue Klebold with son Dylan in 1985. Credit: Sue Klebold via Penguin/Random House Tall, slim and graceful (her younger son was a gangly 193 centimetres tall), she is given to direct eye contact . There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). Eric's parents were both born in Colorado but while his father Wayne Harris was working in the Air Force as a transport pilot, Wayne held 11 different positions at six different bases in Ohio . Dylan was behaving differently, getting in more trouble, not always acting like himself. It didn't help matters any that our father was an abusive asshole. ", Eric: (eventually) "That's it. His father was a geophysicist and a mother worked with the disabled . Thats Something that stands out about Dylan anyway, the Lack of Emotion regarding his parents. A 'Gentle Boy,' His Parents Told Investigators, Klebold Was Enrolled in an Elementary School Program for High Intellectual Potential Students. "So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. There's a blurb on the back flap comparing the book to Helter Skelter and In Cold Blood, and I thought that was just kind of typical PR purple mumbo-jumbo. i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. So I'm gone. He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. There is every likelihood that not a single teacher at Columbine cared enough to pay attention or, even if they did, knew enough to know what danger signs to look for. Dylan Klebold was suicidal for several years before Columbine. Dylans parents were hands-on parents who limited the intake of television and sugary cereals. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. Dylan has been so reclusive. Tom seemed in complete denial. My mom and I have always thought that my brother is one "snap" away from ending up hurting someone and/or in jail. No, they hated the gay boys almost as much as they hated the jocks. Both are from Columbus, Ohio and went to Ohio State University. Dylan Klebold, along with Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 20 at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999. . Other way around. After the killing: How parents of attackers cope. (p. 277). Klebold attended the high . Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris had openly admired Adolf Hitler. I kind of admire that. Well, Mrs. Klebold is quite the victim, isn't she? When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. I knew it wasnt nearly so simple (p. 146). I go into Target and there are children shrieking like banshees in the shopping cart and the mother never says "Be quite. It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . On Dylan's part, I think that in January 1999, he was depressed and preparing to die - distancing himself from those he loved, so that it would be easier for him to carry out the attack. If there is a hell, they are there, burning. When I hear this "We never knew a thing was wrong with our child!" Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. That's why Dylan got one for Christmas 99, it was Tom's way of finding something to bond with with Dylan. She didn't do anything that would be perceived as spying. The parents cars were in the driveway. Reb". What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. Goodbye. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. multiple newspapers and media outlets in the days after reported dylan and his father having the kind of relationship where, when dylan would come home from school, they would share a snack and read the sports section of the newspaper together. Harris parents, Wayne and Kathy Harris, have never spoken to reporters. Really just the gerden variety sociopath stuff? Ericx92s parents knew their son was no angel x97 he broke into a van, he was found making pipe bombs and setting them off for fun x97 and they took steps to address this. its hard to take anything a grieving parents says objectively and we can of course have compassionate understanding for that but also realise it may differ from the reality of the situation, which must be painful. In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . I'm sorry, all right. Dylan Klebold, along with his friend Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 23 others in April, 1999 in Columbine High School, before they turned their guns on . That doesn't make them monsters. I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. I am certain that Sue no longer lives there but she still does visit the house as two Columbiners took a Columbine/E &D tour" in Jan .or Feb and saw Sue outside the house as they drove by. [quote]No, they hated the gay boys almost as much as they hated the jocks. Her recounting of the details of Dylans life, combined with what we learned about school shooters in general, paints a picture of how this particular child ended up committing one of the most infamous massacres in American history. I am with R14 and 15. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. The Columbine story was recently remade, with some editorial changes, as The Hottie and the Nottie starring Paris Hilton. I think it is really interesting to think about the many things that lead someone to commit a school shooting. Sunday, April 25, 1999; Page A8. A place to discuss the massacre that took place at Columbine High School in Littleton, CO on April 20th, 1999. That kid was born with some sort of brain injury. His parents didnt yet know to monitor his internet usage. Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? Boston: Pearson. They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. You unterstand. [quote]He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. When I was in high school, i was friends with a guy who very well could have done what those kids did. crap. That's the first thing. After-hours phone calls to Times officials were not returned, and Brooks did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for comment. As a literature teacher, symbolism is not lost on me. I didn't like life too much and I know I'll be happy wherever the fuck I go. LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) _ Columbine High School gunman Dylan Klebold was a follower, not a leader, who went astray after he met Eric Harris, friends say. The next deadliest school shooting (based on fatalities) was the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, with 27 fatalities. As a teen, Dylans aversion to embarrassment became more severe, his self-consciousness more pointed. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. Coni Sanders, whose father, Dave Sanders, a . Sue Klebold, whose son Dylan, 17, went on a shooting rampage with his friend Eric Harris, 18, at their high school in Colorado in 1999, . Klebold and Dylan's father, Tom, endured not only . Funny how things cycle. Adding to the tragedy: Six months after Hochhalter's wounding, her mother, Carla, took her own life. GOLDEN, Colo. (AP) _ Less than three months before his deadly rampage at Columbine High School, Dylan Klebold was described by a probation officer as intelligent and capable of making any dream happen, according to juvenile records made public Friday. I honestly do believe (and so does mom) that his brain has been rewired primarily by a head injury he sustained when he was just toddling. It's always about management. The couple said they felt under siege after the shooting and never had a chance to grieve for their son. "How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy?". That's the first thing. The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. They are particularly good at it. Under different circumstances it would've been a lot different. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. But a new book, x93Columbine,x94 by Dave Cullen, reviews every bit of evidence about the shooting short of the parentsx92 firsthand accounts x97 25,000 pages of documents, including videotapes and journals of the killers x97 all of which point to the same chilling conclusion as the Carneal depositions: it is entirely possible for x93goodx94 parents to raise a murderer. The family subsequently moved to Littleton CO in 1993, and Wayne Harris took a job at FlightSafety Services in Englewood CO, a company rumored to work closely . The Klebolds stayed, at least as of 2004. According to a report in the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office was supplied with evidence a year ago that "Eric . The big trifecta of psychopathology. How are parents supposed to know everything that goes on in their children's minds? Bit of a warning, it's a PDF file. How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy? It's still about management. Tom's surgery was today. Getty, AP, AP, AFP/Getty. Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. I'm just thinking of the argument Sue mentioned in her book where Tom was insisting that Dylan remove his baseball hat before they went for breakfast (during their visit to Arizona State University). He was easy to raise, a pleasure to be with, a child who had always made us proud (Klebold, 2016, p. 61). Klebold's parents, Thomas and Susan, lived in a sprawling, secluded house on a dirt road. Sue provides details that help us address some of the other considerations as well. ", "If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters.". In the April 24 column, Brooks had paraphrased an article in the online publication Slate that said Harris and Klebold yearned to become the most prolific mass murders in history. Answer (1 of 2): His mother has (admirably, if belatedly) committed herself to educating people on how to spot the signs of malignant tendencies in their children in an effort to help separate real danger signs from "normal" teen BS. They opened fire on students and teachers at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, on the Nazi leader's birthday in 1999, killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 23 people before taking their own lives. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. We are ich bin auslander! I found this thred on accident and had to comment. . Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. There are several theories but there is not one definition. The couple took issue with people who say they forgive them for what happened. People need to understand this could have happened to them, he said. Both were from Columbus, Ohio and went to Ohio State University. ", [quote]Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold stormed into Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado and murdered 13 people before killing themselves. Wayne & Kathy Harris' son is widely seen as the . Let's set aside the pipe bomb issue and Eric's scrapes with the law for a moment and ask why they weren't more involved with their kid. Harris also had sadistic tendencies, which propelled him to "seek vengeance.". The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. Sue and her husband were vehemently opposed, but Dylan still asked for a gun for Christmas his final year. Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. 5. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. I can't help it. It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. "If a person was denying it, he would say, 'One of . Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. For happy, easy-to-raise, and successful kids like him, it was easy to fly under their parents radar precisely because they were the shiny pennies, hiding the terrible pain they were in from their parents as capably as they did everything else (p. 65). Just as the son's evil made people go back and re-evaluate his dad, discovering examples like the time Poppy sabotaged his opponent's sail boat the night before the race; one wonders if one should investigate more closely the dealings of the Harrises. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. (Stephanie . In general: School shootings happen most at high schools, with a student at the school acting alone as the shooter. In them, its obvious to see how his anger and rage turned from being directed toward himself to directed toward others. Eric Harris was beyond needing a therapist. comes from the shittiest of shitty, lazy parent(s). WTF?!? We are not there yet. Yet, despite a happy upbringing, Dylan still did what he did. Victim's parents reactThe Klebolds comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims parents. Think of kids who commit suicide - often you hear their family say, "We had no idea." ". Cullen, who covered the story for the former Rocky Mountain News, seems to take the view that the Harrises were willfully ignorant of their son's personality (and Major Wayne Harris honestly seems like a bit of a tyrant), and the Klebolds were just clueless. And it wasnx92t because they werenx92t around. Its hard to tell. You can't learn to feel if you don't. We relate. ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, . Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. The two would . Sure, that'll work! While Id argue that violent media doesnt cause people to act violently if theyre not otherwise inclined, it seems Dylan was vulnerable to the violent games and movies he consumed outside the home. I do find it odd that you'd characterise your 17 year old son as your 'best friend' anyway, you're his father. Can you imagine having one of those monsters as your brother? As his father's career pulled him out of schools and away from friends leaving Plattsburgh, New York in 1993 for Colorado Harris increasingly retreated into the computer and . Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. I don't really know what to say about the parents. Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. Dylan was giddy and beaming, all cleaned up for once. Sue Klebold broke down in tears as she remembered the funeral of her son Dylan. Kids hide things. . 6. - You're all over this shit aren't ya? You teach them to recognize triggers that exacerbate symptoms. here are some tidbits that might help you with the question. His parents knew this, though not the extent of it. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. Any pix of the monster creators? I seem to remember them being called "fag.". Attacks seem planned in advance, with the shooter expecting to be killed or planning to commit suicide in conjunction with the attack. I can't remember. . R77, there are people who don't have feelings. Dylan Klebold's father contacted authorities, saying the boy might be involved and offering to help, Jefferson County District Attorney Dave . (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this. VOTN, I have Cullen's book but have not yet started it. To be clear, I'm sure the Klebold's obviously loved their children, but reading Dylan's writings, there was more going on in that home that Sue would say today. At the beginning, when he writes about the good things in his life, he mentions his parents. The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. Agreed that Klebold's parents seem like total cunts, delusional in their whiny victim mentality. He's wearing a plaid shirt, either dark blue or black with white; the shirt's untucked. With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. By. I cannot have my uzzer patrons being upset. Dylan seems to have been a very unhappy person. In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine..
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