It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. cases. Berleur Michel Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Gun Markings - OldGuns.net This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. firearms books bibliary. Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Bernimolin Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. . Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Please - no questions about your old guns. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Belgium - Shotguns date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Thanks! Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? %PDF-1.3 will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Comblain - Dorther Hubert 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. After years of looking at and trying The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Closset Louis - Remy Hubert A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Thank y'all again! )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Proof Marks or this location now so you can return often. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, or E.C. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. I'll test it very cautiously. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Andr M.J. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Miscellaneous Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . A "Greener" double? Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Bettonville - Fontaine wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. significance or purpose. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Bauduin Charles rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Christophe Louis The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Boden Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Quite old. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Bultot Jean If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol Hi, Jeremy. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Thanks again for the help! Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Baron Emile carefully bound by threads. 4 0 obj Colette Victor Collings Hadelin Serial Numbers. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. The Modern Shotgun. By Alain Daubresse. Bazin F.J. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Chartier And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Beuret Frres Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Bernard Victor & Cie On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Thanks so much. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Pictures would help! This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Antique Pistols and Handguns for Sale | Collectors Firearms Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. A Beginner's Guide to Collecting Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns The blue is rough but the action works. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Information, NRA BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 that we have found on this subject. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. . Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Misc. . R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Bernimolin & Cap Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. GWO, good condition. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. (most sales were in the 1930s). Comblain Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. Order this book online and pay it through No maker's name anywhere? The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. Belgian Arms cie to identify the manufacturer. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Behr Jean jacques Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. This printed Anonymes Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Bayet Frres Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. thanks for the help so far. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Bury Jules. production. Antique Shotguns & Belgian Shotguns Side by Side - Collectors Firearms Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms.
Uber Cost Nashville Airport To Downtown,
Zomg Value List Bgs,
Hutchinson Obituaries,
How To Build A Surround For A Clawfoot Tub,
Articles O